lighting questions for a group portrait

[musicman5]

I have been asked to take a group portrait at an 80th birthday party and as the guest of honor is not in the best of health I don't want to screw it up.

The setting: a family room, fairly large with beige walls. The group will be in front of a fireplace. (See the attached diagram) Three men and four women in the main group. (There is a bare sliding door to the patio to camera left. But I have no idea if this is a day or night shot.)

Portrait will be (hopefully) a waist up or 3/4 shot. I will use a custom white balance as there will most likely be other light sources.

I am planning on shooting this TTL as I won't have the time to experiment as I would need to do if I lit it manually. So with Canon TTL you need a fast lens and previous experience on this location tells me I'll use either a 50mm f/1.4 or 85mm f/1.8.



My main light will be camera right or if this is a daytime shot should it be camera left light the sliding glass door? Where should I place my fill light (another Speedlite)? I'll ratio the fill light to be half the power of the main. Should the fill be bounced off the white ceiling or modified in some manner (no umbrellas or softboxes as I won't have the time)?

If it is a daytime shot I really shouldn't need the fill should I? The ambient light will be enough.

After I've typed all this in I wonder why I agreed to do this.

Comments?

[OrcaBob]

Tough call, Mark. The fact that it could be a daytime shot (lots of light coming from the patio door) or nighttime (no light from the door) will largely dictate how you arrange your lighting. Complicating matters further, you're having to shoot on the quick-time with no setup and testing.

Is there any way you can get a definitive time from that party? And is there any way you can do a test shoot in advance? You don't need everyone there. You could drag one of your kids along as a test model.

My big concern about the lighting as diagrammed (BTW, cool diagram!) is that the shot could look flat and the party could cast a shadow on the background.

Rather than use a flash unit as fill, I'd suggest moving the group out from the wall an extra couple of feet and use that flash unit to light the wall/fireplace behind them. You could always provide side fill light via reflectors.

[musicman5]

Here is the site to create your own lighting diagrams:

www.lightingdiagrams.com/Creator

Here is what I think we are talking about:


The venue for this is event is out of town and I seriously doubt I'll be in that area before then. I have to work on getting them to nail down the time for me. My guess is it will be after dark.

This would be a good spot for a couple of Alien Bees!!

[musicman5]

Well I have been experimenting off and on all week on this setup. I believe I'll use a 3 light setup, at this point. A main, a fill and sort of a hair light. I have another month to work on this and refine my setup. More later.

[musicman5]

Well tomorrow is the big day for my group photo(s). Since I have posted last I have done a lot of experimentation. I was able to set up a test site that approximated where I will be tomorrow. (Should be an afternoon shoot so I will get some ambient light from camera left.)

I tried every light modifier I owned and was never satisfied with the results. I was recently paid for a large refinishing job, so I took those profits and invested in some Alien Bee lights.

The attached diagram shows my planned starting point. I'll then use my lightmeter to determine if I need to adjust.

One more round of testing today.

Attachments:

[OrcaBob]

That last diagram looks like a good plan (especially since you're planning on applying ambient fill from camera-left). However, all that lighting from the front might leave the portrait lacking depth.

I'd recommend trying your speedlight behind the subjects and aimed up to illuminate the wall or backdrop. At least take a series as diagrammed and then a quick series with a dedicated light on the backdrop to supplement what you've got diagrammed.

I'll be interested to see the results and to hear your impressions of the AlienBees.

[musicman5]

Dec 12, 2009 14:59:54 GMT -5 OrcaBob said:

That last diagram looks like a good plan (especially since you're planning on applying ambient fill from camera-left). However, all that lighting from the front might leave the portrait lacking depth.

I'd recommend trying your speedlight behind the subjects and aimed up to illuminate the wall or backdrop. At least take a series as diagrammed and then a quick series with a dedicated light on the backdrop to supplement what you've got diagrammed.

I'll be interested to see the results and to hear your impressions of the AlienBees.

I hope to move the subjects further from the wall than what I showed in the diagram. Just depends on how much room I have. I planned on taking my speedlights in the hope that I can squeeze one behind the groups. Unfortunately they will most likely be in front of a somewhat ugly fireplace. So lighting it up may not look too good!

So far I really enjoy working with the AB's, it's a lot easier than working with speedlights. I even got a Vagabond (just used it for the first time today) and that is really cool. I love not having to use long extension cords!

More after this event tomorrow. Tonight I have to photography an awards dinner and try to drum up some sales!!

[OrcaBob]

Damn, Mark, I'm jealous about the Vagabond! I recently worked with a guy who had one and it really simplified the shoot.

If the fireplace is ugly, putting some floodlighting on it might help. Or might make it worse. No way of telling without seeing the place. Have you thought about masking some of the ugliness with wreaths or boughs?

[musicman5]

Dec 12, 2009 16:07:45 GMT -5 OrcaBob said:

Damn, Mark, I'm jealous about the Vagabond! I recently worked with a guy who had one and it really simplified the shoot.

If the fireplace is ugly, putting some floodlighting on it might help. Or might make it worse. No way of telling without seeing the place. Have you thought about masking some of the ugliness with wreaths or boughs?

If I told you how long the refinishing job took that earned that Vagabond you would not be jealous!

[john101477]

hahaha that kicks butt mark.

[musicman5]

Well the Vagabond came in very handy Bob. I used it on my key light as it was not near an outlet and an extension cord would have been in a traffic area. My fill was next to an outlet so it just went there.

Most of my groups (and there were a lot, have not counted them yet) went well. I had a couple that were large enough that I had difficulty lighting the faces in the back.

My two biggest problems were space and speed. I did not have enough room to reposition my lights correctly and once again I worked too fast. In my defense the subjects tended to dictate my pace. I had all ages, so the old ones can't pose long and the young ones don't want to!

I did discover that wheels on the light stand would be a very good thing. It would have made changing the positions of the lights a lot easier. Not that I had a lot of room to move them in!

I'll post a shot or two eventually.

[OrcaBob]

Space and pace are always the two big hurdles in a group shoot like that. Murphy's Law dictates that you never have the space you need and that you'll get at least some subjects who think this type of shoot is a bang-bang-bang Shake-and-Bake operation.

This is the type of shoot that will test your Photoshop skills.

[musicman5]

And since I have no Photoshop skills they get what they paid for!!!

First wasn't too bad, the next two were not my favorites and then after that the rest were not too bad. Except when I had to let a brother-in-law use my camera to take my photo. Ugh.

The main group photo, mother and children:


Here is one I was very happy with:


Mother and Daughters:


Cake?

[OrcaBob]

Those are very good, Mark! I'm especially impressed with the second and third shots (smaller groups). When the group gets big enough, one main light can cast shadows on the second row of people. But those shadows are pretty mild.

[musicman5]

I learned a lot from doing this Bob.

I started of with a group of 4 and my light was fine. But then I went to another group of 4 but in a different location, off to the left of where these photos were taken. (This was the elderly group and one person was already seated so I had to shift location.) I was not able to move my lights into the correct positions - so I just had to make do. But these shots came out pretty good.

Next was the group in the first photo.

I learned that on a group like this I need to re-meter each row. Actually I knew that but did not think of it. I should have moved the key light closer to the group and raised the power of the fill light. I don't recall what I had the lights set at for this shot, but it was not enough.

Another issue was the other family photographers. I had my key light connected to a Pocketwizard and my fill fired by the slave function. So whenever one of the other cameras fired so did my fill light unless I turned it off. (Then I'd forget to turn it back on!)

All in all it was a lot of fun. Learned a lot, I hope.

Here is a link to a 4 minute video of the event:
www.musicman5photosblog.com/2009/12/animotocom.html